Today, Cryptomanran invited his VC guests to come onto his show and reveal some of their best-kept secrets. Are you ready to find out what their highest conviction Altcoin bets are?

๐—™๐—ข๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ช ๐—ข๐—จ๐—ฅ ๐—š๐—จ๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ง๐—ฆ ๐—ข๐—ก ๐—ซ:

๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—”๐—ฉ๐—œ๐—–๐—›๐—”๐—Ÿ
๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—ฃ๐—”๐—จ๐—Ÿ ๐—ฉ๐—˜๐—ฅ๐—”๐——๐—œ๐—ง๐—ง๐—”๐—ž๐—œ๐—ง
๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—›๐—”๐—ฆ๐—˜๐—˜๐—•

๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—ก๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—— ๐—ฉ๐—ฃ๐—ก – ๐—ฆ๐—ง๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—ฆ๐—”๐—™๐—˜ ๐—ข๐—ก๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—ก๐—˜ – ๐——๐—ข๐—กโ€™๐—ง ๐—š๐—˜๐—ง ๐—›๐—”๐—–๐—ž๐—˜๐——!! ๐—ž๐—˜๐—˜๐—ฃ ๐—ฌ๐—ข๐—จ๐—ฅ ๐—–๐—ฅ๐—ฌ๐—ฃ๐—ง๐—ข ๐—”๐—ก๐—— ๐—œ๐——๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—œ๐—ง๐—ฌ ๐—ฆ๐—”๐—™๐—˜!!
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๐—š๐—˜๐—ง ๐—ก๐—ข๐—ฅ๐——๐—ฉ๐—ฃ๐—ก, ๐—ง๐—›๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—ง ๐—ฃ๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ง๐—˜๐—–๐—ง๐—œ๐—ข๐—ก ๐—”๐—ก๐—— ๐—œ๐—–๐—ข๐—ก๐—š๐—ก๐—œ ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ ๐—ช๐—œ๐—ง๐—› ๐—ง๐—›๐—˜ ๐—•๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ช ๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ž๐—ฆ
๐Ÿ‘‰ Try NordVPN risk-free now:
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๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—ฅ๐—”๐—ก’๐—ฆ ๐—›๐—œ๐—š๐—›๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ง ๐—–๐—ข๐—ก๐—ฉ๐—œ๐—–๐—ง๐—œ๐—ข๐—ก ๐—•๐—˜๐—ง๐—ฆ

๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—•๐—ฌ๐—•๐—œ๐—ง – ๐—ง๐—›๐—˜ ๐—•๐—ฌ๐—•๐—œ๐—ง ๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—œ๐—ฅ๐——๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ฃ ๐—œ๐—ฆ ๐—œ๐— ๐— ๐—œ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง! ๐——๐—˜๐—ฃ๐—ข๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—ง $๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐—•๐—˜ ๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—š๐—œ๐—•๐—Ÿ๐—˜ ๐—™๐—ข๐—ฅ ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜๐—ฅ $๐Ÿญ.๐Ÿฑ๐—  ๐—ข๐—™ ๐—ง๐—›๐—˜ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—œ๐—ฅ๐——๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ฃ!!
๐Ÿ’ฐ๐—š๐—˜๐—ง $๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ! ๐—˜๐—ซ๐—–๐—Ÿ๐—จ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—•๐—”๐—ก๐—ง๐—˜๐—ฅ ๐—™๐—”๐—  ๐—•๐—ข๐—ก๐—จ๐—ฆ ๐—ช๐—›๐—˜๐—ก ๐—ฌ๐—ข๐—จ ๐——๐—˜๐—ฃ๐—ข๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—ง $๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ & ๐—ง๐—ฅ๐—”๐——๐—˜ $๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ
โœ… Register for $GUMMY Airdrop

๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐—ข๐—ก๐—˜ ๐— ๐—œ๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—ข๐—ก ๐——๐—ข๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—”๐—ฅ๐—ฆ ๐—œ๐—ก $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—œ๐—ฅ๐——๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ฃ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐——๐—˜๐—•๐—ฅ๐—œ๐——๐—š๐—˜ ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ง๐—ช๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—ž ๐—จ๐—ฆ๐—˜๐—ฅ๐—ฆ!!!
Use the deBridge link below to farm more $GUMMY airdrop exclusively for deBridge users!

๐Ÿค‘ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ – ๐Ÿฑ ๐—˜๐—”๐—ฆ๐—ฌ ๐—ช๐—”๐—ฌ๐—ฆ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐—š๐—˜๐—ง ๐—ฌ๐—ข๐—จ๐—ฅ ๐—ฆ๐—›๐—”๐—ฅ๐—˜ ๐—ข๐—™ ๐—จ๐—ฃ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—ง๐—ข๐—ž๐—˜๐—ก๐—ฆ ๐—”๐—œ๐—ฅ๐——๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ฃ!!
โœ… ๐—Ÿ๐—˜๐—”๐—ฅ๐—ก ๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—™๐—˜-๐—–๐—›๐—”๐—ก๐—š๐—œ๐—ก๐—š ๐—ง๐—ฅ๐—”๐——๐—œ๐—ก๐—š ๐—ฆ๐—ž๐—œ๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ฆ ๐—™๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—  ๐—ž๐—ฌ๐—Ÿ๐—˜ ๐——๐—ข๐—ข๐—ฃ๐—ฆ!!
1๏ธโƒฃ ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—š๐—ก ๐—จ๐—ฃ ๐—™๐—ข๐—ฅ ๐—ช๐—›๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—–๐—›๐—ข๐—ข๐—Ÿ:

๐Ÿ‘‰ ๐—ฆ๐—ถ๐—ด๐—ป ๐—จ๐—ฝ ๐—ง๐—ผ ๐—ข๐˜‚๐—ฟ ๐—ฃ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐˜๐—ป๐—ฒ๐—ฟ ๐—˜๐˜…๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ด๐—ฒ๐˜€ & ๐——๐—ฒ๐—ฝ๐—ผ๐˜€๐—ถ๐˜ $๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ!
2๏ธโƒฃ ๐—•๐—ฌ๐—•๐—œ๐—ง ๐—ฅ๐—ฒ๐—ด๐—ถ๐˜€๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ ๐Ÿ‘‰
3๏ธโƒฃ ๐—”๐—˜๐—ฉ๐—ข
4๏ธโƒฃ ๐—•๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—™๐—œ๐—ก
5๏ธโƒฃ ๐—•๐—”๐—ก๐—ง๐—˜๐—ฅ ๐—•๐—จ๐—•๐—•๐—Ÿ๐—˜๐—ฆ ๐—ฃ๐—ข๐—œ๐—ก๐—ง๐—ฆ:

๐Ÿ”Š ๐—ž๐—ฒ๐—ฒ๐—ฝ ๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ณ๐—ผ๐—ฟ๐—บ๐—ฒ๐—ฑ ๐—ผ๐—ป $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—จ๐—ฝ๐—ฑ๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜€!
๐Ÿ‘‰ ๐—™๐—ผ๐—น๐—น๐—ผ๐˜„ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ง๐˜„๐—ถ๐˜๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ:
๐Ÿ‘‰ ๐—–๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ธ ๐—ผ๐˜‚๐˜ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—ช๐—ฒ๐—ฏ๐˜€๐—ถ๐˜๐—ฒ:

๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐— ๐—˜๐— ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ง๐—”๐—ž๐—œ๐—ก๐—š ๐—œ๐—ฆ ๐—›๐—˜๐—ฅ๐—˜!! ๐—ฆ๐—ง๐—”๐—ž๐—˜ ๐—ฌ๐—ข๐—จ๐—ฅ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐—˜๐—”๐—ฅ๐—ก $๐—•๐—”๐—ž๐—˜๐—ฆ ๐—ก๐—ข๐—ช ๐Ÿค‘
1๏ธโƒฃ ๐—ฆ๐˜๐—ฎ๐—ธ๐—ฒ ๐˜†๐—ผ๐˜‚๐—ฟ $๐—š๐—จ๐— ๐— ๐—ฌ
2๏ธโƒฃ โ Use your SOLANA wallet with your $GUMMY
3๏ธโƒฃ Stake your $GUMMY and earn points
4๏ธโƒฃ The more you stake the more points you earn
5๏ธโƒฃ Get $BAKED (When it launches)

๐Ÿš€ ๐—๐—ข๐—œ๐—ก ๐—™๐—ฅ๐—ข๐—ก๐—ง-๐—ฅ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฅ๐—ฆ – ๐Ÿšจ๐—ช๐—”๐—œ๐—ง ๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—ง ๐—œ๐—ฆ ๐—™๐—œ๐—ก๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ฌ ๐—ข๐—ฃ๐—˜๐—ก๐Ÿšจ ๐—˜๐—ซ๐—–๐—Ÿ๐—จ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—”๐—–๐—–๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ง๐—ข ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ๐—ซ ๐—ฃ๐—ฅ๐—˜-๐—ฆ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—˜๐—ฆ, ๐—œ๐——๐—ข๐˜€ ๐—”๐—ก๐—— ๐—ง๐—ฅ๐—”๐——๐—˜๐—ฆ!!
My OFFICIAL private group is where youโ€™ll get access to ALL my secret alpha + the team’s DAILY research calls + 100x IDOs AND some trades me and the team takes internally!! Book Your Spot!

๐Ÿค๐Ÿฝ ๐—–๐—ผ๐—น๐—น๐—ฎ๐—ฏ๐—ผ๐—ฟ๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป๐˜€ ๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ฑ ๐—ฃ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐˜๐—ป๐—ฒ๐—ฟ๐˜€๐—ต๐—ถ๐—ฝ๐˜€:

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๐Ÿ—ž๏ธ ๐—ฆ๐—ถ๐—ด๐—ป ๐˜‚๐—ฝ ๐—ณ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐—ผ๐˜‚๐—ฟ ๐—–๐—ฟ๐˜†๐—ฝ๐˜๐—ผ ๐—ก๐—ฒ๐˜„๐˜€๐—น๐—ฒ๐˜๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ๐˜€ ๐—›๐—ฒ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ!
๐Ÿ“ฌ ๐—ง๐—ต๐—ฒ ๐——๐—ฎ๐—ถ๐—น๐˜† ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ฑ๐—น๐—ฒ –
๐Ÿ“ฌ ๐—š๐—ผ๐—ผ๐—ฑ ๐— ๐—ผ๐—ฟ๐—ป๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ด ๐—–๐—ฟ๐˜†๐—ฝ๐˜๐—ผ –

๐Ÿ“ฃ ๐—›๐—ผ๐˜€๐˜:
Crypto Man Ran
Twitter –

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๐ŸŒŽ ๐—๐—ข๐—œ๐—ก ๐—ง๐—›๐—˜ ๐—š๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—•๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—•๐—”๐—ก๐—ง๐—˜๐—ฅ ๐—™๐—”๐— !
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๐Ÿ‘๏ธโ€๐Ÿ—จ๏ธ ๐—–๐—ฟ๐˜†๐—ฝ๐˜๐—ผ ๐—•๐—ฎ๐—ป๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ ๐—ฎ๐—ฏ๐—ถ๐—ฑ๐—ฒ ๐—ฏ๐˜† ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฒ ๐—ณ๐—ผ๐—น๐—น๐—ผ๐˜„๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ด ๐—ฐ๐—ผ๐—ฑ๐—ฒ ๐—ผ๐—ณ ๐—ฐ๐—ผ๐—ป๐—ฑ๐˜‚๐—ฐ๐˜:

We take our code of ethics very seriously and have engaged @zachxbt ( to monitor our progress. If you feel weโ€™re not living up to it and have hard evidence please mail ZachXBT directly at

โš ๏ธ ๐—•๐—˜๐—ช๐—”๐—ฅ๐—˜ ๐—ข๐—™ ๐—ฆ๐—–๐—”๐— ๐— ๐—˜๐—ฅ๐—ฆ ๐—œ๐—ก ๐—ข๐—จ๐—ฅ ๐—–๐—ข๐— ๐— ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—ฆ ๐—”๐—ก๐—— ๐—–๐—ข๐— ๐— ๐—จ๐—ก๐—œ๐—ง๐—ฌ ๐—–๐—›๐—”๐—ก๐—ก๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—ฆ

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๐—ฆ๐—ฝ๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ถ๐—ฎ๐—น ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ธ๐˜€ ๐˜๐—ผ:

๐ŸŽต DJ Asher Swissa
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Crypto Banter is a social podcast for entertainment purposes only!
All opinions expressed by the hosts, guests and callers should not be construed as financial advice!

#Bitcoin #Crypto #Altcoins

โฑ ๐—ง๐—ถ๐—บ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜๐—ฎ๐—บ๐—ฝ๐˜€:
00:00 Ran’s Highest Conviction Altcoins List
04:40 Crypto Expert VCs Join the Banter
05:30 VC Narrative – Are VCs Good for Crypto?
10:30 Success Rates of VC Investing – NEAR Protocol
14:15 Tech Investors & Traditional Venture Capital
18:00 Buying Crypto in Bear Markets Lower than VCs Can
19:10 Are Meme Coins Going to Stay Around?
20:59 Meme Coin Theory – Casino, Religion & Community
24:12 Meme Coin Performance over 24 Hours
25:27 Are VCs Holding Meme Coins on their Balance Sheet?
28:51 GUMMY Launch & Airdrop – Meme Coins as Powerful Tool
31:14 VCs Bullish on Telegram TON & Investing in Telegram
35:00 Does Adding a Blockchain to an App 5x the Ecosystem?
40:48 Why the Market is Bullish on NEAR Protocol
44:00 Is NEAR Protocol Going to be Used for AI?
46:22 Ethereum Not Performing – Bullish or Time to Dump ETH?
49:23 Ethereum vs Solana – Where to Invest? SOL ETF Possible?
52:27 Biden vs Trump Debate – Worst-Case Scenario for Crypto

๐ŸŽฌ ๐—ช๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ฐ๐—ต ๐—บ๐—ผ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ ๐—™๐—ฟ๐—ถ๐—ฑ๐—ฎ๐˜† ๐—•๐—ฎ๐—ป๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ๐˜€:

๐Ÿ”Ž ๐—ฅ๐—ฒ๐—น๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฑ ๐—ฆ๐—ฒ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐˜€: Bitcoin – Crypto News – VC Investors – Altcoins – Crypto Investors – Crypto Experts – Crypto Fund Raising – Crypto Backers – Crypto VCs

[Music] A few weeks ago I published a list of my Highest conviction crypto bets and if You look at that list over here what You'll see is that we've got tokens like Awe salana telegram Nea run sui and a Whole lot of others these are the tokens That I have the most conviction in for The cycle and if you look at the price Movements in the last week or so what You'll realize is that the tokens that Are moving the fastest are the ones on My list now the reality is that that's No coincidence and the reason is we Spend a lot of time doing research Speaking to VCS and finding out what They all think before we actually Publish these lists today I've got a Very very very special treat for you I've actually got the same VCS that that Give me the information coming onto the Show right here and they are going to Share with you their highest conviction Bits it's going to be a great great Great show so let's get the show on the Road let's go You know they say no one man is an army If you want to be making good calls and If you want to be getting good crypto Research you need to have a good team of Researchers behind you and yeah at B I've got like 10 researchers here that Just power one of my shows I've also got These guys speaking to the VCS every

Single day finding out exactly what all The VCS think and that is where we bring You the research from and as I said Today I've got a very special show for You cuz today what we're going to do is We got three of the top VCS in this Place we got H from Dragon H from dragon Fly Capital we've got aishell from Electric Capital and we've got uh Paul Here who's here from uh panta and those Are effectively the three biggest VCS in The crypto space today and they are Going to tell you what their highest Conviction bets are for the cycle but Before we get into it first of all smash The like button if you haven't already Smashed the like button subscribe to the Channel as quickly as you can and I want To just remind you that our Friday shows Are brought to you by nordvpn now guys I Don't know about you but when I read This story over here it gave me uh it Gave me the chills and I really want you Guys to see this story over here so You've all used hello sign you know you Know that that whole hello sign well Hello sign is actually owned by Dropbox And what they revealed this weekend was That they disclosed a breach of the of Their hello sign digital signature Service in the breach what they were Saying is that um they who accessed Emails username passwords account Settings of anyone that used hello sign

Okay so if you've used the hello sign uh Or the Dropbox signing service your data May have been compromised now why am I Telling you this because guys we're in Crypto we're surfing these sites every Single day we want to remain anonymous If our computers get hacked they're Going to take our money you need to make Sure that you're protected and the best Way to protect yourself is to use a Nordvpn now there's a good reason why You need to use nordvpn there is a link Below just click this link and get Yourself a VPN when you get a VPN not Only do you mask your IP address you can See like my IP address is completely Completely completely um uh uh Transparent now but you also get things Like um uh key protection password Managers and stuff like that all here And you if you if you sign up with this Deal you get 30-day money back guarantee And you pay less than $3 a month you pay $22.98 a month so guys do that and Protect yourselves also if you are um if If you are uh worried that you have been Exposed in one of those hacks you need To get um Nord threat protect and Nord Incog which there's a there's a link for All of them uh in the descriptions okay So go and get those it'll cost you less Than $6 a month but number one you Remove yourself from all these spam Databases you remove yourself from all

These unwanted databases you protect Yourself from all these websites that Are malicious and could hack your your Uh your wallets and your keys and of Course you make your surfing completely Completely uh anonymous which is exactly Where you want to be in crypto all right Guys now that the formalities are out The way and now that I know you're all Signing up for a VPN go ahead do it I'm Going to Wait so just as we were getting bored The market decided to actually wake up This weekend I think the big question For everyone is whether this is the Beginning of a proper bounce and we've Had enough chop and we've been chopped Up enough or whether this is just Another fake bounce and we're going to Go back into that choppy Zone like we do Every year after the harving and we're Going to go there and I think to start That discussion I'm going to bring in Our guests and I must warn you ladies And gentlemen I have to warn you that Today I have a very special panel for You guys I have three VCS I ask you that You that you that you be very kind to Them because in this cycle VCS are Getting killed the public perception of VCS is absolutely getting destroyed but These are the good guys these are are Three of of the good guys guys welcome And welcome back um I guess uh we were

Discussing earlier in the in the waiting Room that this cycle it has become that The VCS have become like the the the Most hated uh the ones that are getting Rebelled against and you know like as Part of this revolution are you guys Feeling that out out [Music] There are you feeling it out there I Just I just I just feel I just feel love Just feel every time I go on Twitter I Feel I feel a be hug of Love well I mean what what what do you Think it is why do you think that that All of a sudden and I mean I mean is it All of a sudden that people are are Retail investors are kind of rebelling Against the the the the horrible VCS well it's always a function of which VCS right it's generally speaking every Cycle there's crappy VCS who end up kind Of doing the very lowquality projects The pump and dumps the super low float Type stuff and those things are not good For retail investors there's so so there There's like some specific things that Are happening that I think piss people Off and then there's the general Phenomenon that there's been this Sentiment that hey this VC coin thing Where VC's back this technology project And they invest very early and then it Goes live at a multi-billion valuation And Retail doesn't get to participate in

Any of it there's a sense that okay Maybe we should just jettison this whole Game and instead just invest in beam Coins and there you know there's no Pre-sales there's no insiders or you Know maybe there's a team or something But there's there's much fewer insiders Who own supply of this thing um and Maybe this whole story about technology And creating a better internet or Creating a better crypto Financial rails Maybe it's all [ย __ย ] and why do we Even buy into this game to begin with so I think that's the narrative uh and it It kind of shows up as aichel was saying It kind of shows up every cycle but uh It does feel like it's particularly Strong this the sentiment of like Hey We're kind of over it can I can I throw Something at you and maybe this is the a Thesis for but generally when I think About a traditional VC outside of crypto I think about a VC that's taken a Position in a company and waited for Three four five six years before they Get like any kind of opportunity for Liquidity and I don't see really any Opportunity for those kind of VCS to Dump on retail investors because you Know the path to get to the NASDAQ or The path to get to liquidity is quite a Long path but in crypto I see a Different path I see a company raising Today at a 10 million or 20 or $30

Million valuation and that's usually Taken out by the VCS and then 3 months Later they're going for the next round Round and the next round is at a Multiple of the first round and a year Later they are at 100 times the first Round and then they come onto the market And they create very quick liquidity and Then I think that is what you know as a Retail investor uh I I would probably be Getting a little bit upset about is the Fact that the time in a normal VC cycle Versus the time in a crypto VC cycle is A very different time period and the Opportunity to get liquidity whereas in The traditional Market it's it's very Hard to get liquidity because you got to Go through a stringent SEC process here You just get onto the the the the Shitcoin deex and then the the VCS who Are not locked up can actually can Actually um uh dump on the retail Investor so I mean do you not think that That might be where where the Frustration comes in when you when you Look at so this is what I meant when I Said it really depends on the VC right So you you just described you know a Project that basically takes seed Funding goes to quickly raise a follow On a follow on B you know have huge Multiples launch on a DEX and then the VCS dump immediately okay nobody who's On this show like none of the the the

VCS that are really doing this at scale And Sil Valley we all have massive Lockups when we invest into any of these Projects usually for us it's fouryear End to end investing when we invest in a Project in the early stages they're Building some real [ย __ย ] they can't go From a seed round to having a token live In less than a year right so the people Who are investing in the stuff that you Know most of the time when we invest in A project it's multiple years before They turn what they are building which Is some unique technology into something That can actually launch a token and so It's multiple years until you get to Actually being able to launch a token a Main net a test net whatever and then From there it's four years end to endend For us to get all of our tokens and for Most of these situations people know What our addresses are so we can't just Go in and start dumping day one because Everyone's gonna be like oh my God you Know this VC that's supposed to have Confidence in this project is all of a Sudden dumping everything so it's it's Really the kind of low Integrity fast Money VCS or VCS quote unquote who are Investing in stuff that's flipping day One on a deck there's no lockups they're Dumping on retail that kind of stuff Just doesn't happen and if you're Talking about the really successful

Projects right the 100 X's like you Described those projects you know if you Think about the Unis swaps and the Salas These things generally are very hard to Build they're very very rare most of the Things that you invest into as a VC do Not become 100xs if it did you know I Don't know we'd be we'd be making way More money we'd all be retired um so no Most things that you invest in don't Make it most things you invest in you Know startups are hard most startups Fail and so the few startups that do end Up becoming these really big success Stories like the Unis swaps the Salas The mon The Avalanches they're they're Hard Technologies to build they take a Lot of time let me ask you let me ask You I mean you guys have all got amazing Funds with amazing reputations every Single one of you I mean we've got I Think I don't think you can get a better A better amount a better uh panel panel Of VCS here what what's your success Rate like if I were to say to like I Know none of your fans are very very old Except maybe panta is like the oldest Here fund here but what is your what What is your success rate and let me Define success for you success is how Many projects do you in how many Projects do you believe you've invested In that you haven't been able to get Your money back so let's not worry about

The ones that that that actually uh uh How many did you not get your money back On see everyone's gone quiet here so I Think I wish Maybe go for well I'm just thinking the Problem the problem or the challenge or The opportunity is um it takes a while To know especially in crypto right it's Just like if you manage your Capital Well as an as a company you may not have A lot of traction but if the founder Keeps going for three four five years They might hit the next crypto upcycle And then it works so let's let's take Sort of uh one one of my favorites as an Example obviously and nothing I say or Anybody here say nothing Financial advis Obviously but take something like like Near yeah I know um but something like Near right like Ilia worked on stuff for Years he he was on the Transformer paper Um I think I think all three of us might Be investors in the year I think we are All four all four of us all four of us And uh so we were see Myers yeah four us Yeah so you know uh electric and I think Kib back at um meta stable PR of Dragonfly was very early like we Investors in like 2018 um only in like 2024 did that thing really kind of like Find its footing right so it took six Years for that thing to even work so to Your question of like you know there are A lot of people in in 2021 they were

Like yeah this thing's dead like it's Just never going to work um and here we Are three years after that and ilas back In running the thing and it's it's going Well right like they they have built a Bunch of cool stuff in it's scaled the Sharting stuff works like their da layer Works like it just takes a long time so It's the reason I sort of hesitated was Not because I don't want to say I think It's actually in practice until you're Like seven or eight years in it's Actually quite hard to say because there Might be a thing like near that a bunch Of people would write off and then you Look you know three four years later and The founders grinding right and it just And it works so it's it's actually in Practice quite hard to say I do want to Talk about ni a lot more because I Actually do want to dig into what Elia Is doing and why why the change in Perception but just um do you think that As a VC fund you have a higher success Rate or a lower success rate than other Tech funds so I mean sorry as a crypto VC fund do you think that you have a Higher or lower success rate than than a Normal Tech fund and the reason why I Ask is because in crypto you have Quicker liquidity so you have a much Quicker exit right so if I think of a Traditional uh Sand Hill Road uh Tech Investor for them it was one Z because

Either the founder made it or they ran Out of money and there was no liquidity Along the way for the VCS I agree with You that you have lockup I I I I I Understand the lock up but generally you Do get 5% of your tokens on tge or maybe 5% after 3 months or 10% after tge or Stuff like that um and you do have the Option to a year after tge pretty much Never is it three months or Us investor well yeah for us investor These days it's like at least a year Okay so so that that that's that's Governed by R to your to your point but Setting setting side this yeah but Setting the specifics for a second I Think the meta point that I think H made Is the right one which is there's no There's no like accreditation to say You're a VC there are all these people That are not actually Venture Capital Investors running around pretending to Be VCS and um and they don't actually do The things that good VCS do they don't Back things for multiple years they're Not willing to take a fouryear lock up They're not willing to actually roll up Their sleeves and help um and so I I Actually understand like the the the Type of VC that retail hates we also Don't like because they make they make Us look bad um to your question actually Specifically around Tech investors um I Think um there's two ways to think about

That um one is there's actually data Around this like the Venture Capital Industry tracks this stuff um and better Firms tend to have more zeros because They're actually taking more risks um They're trying to find the things that Are going to be really breakout and so Actually if you look at it um funds that Are better have more zeros which is kind Of a little counterintuitive to most People two it's a little bit of Um uh it's not exactly correct that even In traditional Tech you just have ones And zeros um and this you know we can Talk about legislation but it's actually It's a really important thing to Understand I think because even in Traditional Venture you have for example Let's say you an early investor in Facebook you might be really close to Zuck right he he really trusts you um And so if you have some company that um That is sort of strategically valuable To Facebook it's that much easier to get A company acquired not because you're Doing anything bad it's because there's A bunch of senior people on Facebook That might trust you and so if you Introduce a Founder to them they they'll Say oh I trust your judgment on people I Trust your judgment on technology like I Should at least talk to these people so In practice actually there aren't just Zeros and ones and that's actually what

Makes selon Valley work so well is There's there's a whole host of Opportunities for people to get acquired Between like 20 million and 200 million Um and so from a VC perspective you get A bunch of non zeros that can actually Return Capital back into the fund and Then that creates you know entrepreneurs Who make a little bit of money who then Become Angel Investors and cycle the Next thing through so it's actually part Of the secret of why Silicon Valley Works is there's a there's a very robust Acquisition market for things between Like 20 and 200 million that most of the Rest of the world doesn't have um and so It's also not exactly true that you're Either zero or one in Venture Capital if You're a good VC because you actually Have a lot of other things like You're Investing in good stuff that's Fundamentally useful that other bigger Technology companies might want um and So there actually a lot of opportunities To sell things in traditional Venture Setting aside tokens um to to bigger Companies too so I think one of the Things I think i' add to that yeah well So you know we we we talk a lot about How traditional Venture capitalists they Tend to take you know 10 years 12 years In order to actually get from a company To IPO and it's worth remembering this Is a relatively recent artifact right it

Was basically after the great financial Crisis that the requirements around Going public in the US dramatically Increased and before that it was Actually more typical for younger Companies to go public because the Reporting requirements were just not as Onerous as they were in the past and People talk about this as a social Problem in the capital markets that Retail investors don't get exposure to All these startups and all these vibrant New companies only accredit investors Can get access because of the fact that The IPO requirements are so difficult in The US in a way crypto has been trying To kind of flatten this hierarchy to Saying okay accredited investors and Institutions can get access to these Vibrant startups and you know crypto was Sort of like look let's flatten these Capital markets and allow anybody to get Access and of course what happened the SEC said nope that's not allowed you Can't do icos you can't you know sell to Retail you can only sell to credit Investors and and institutions um and so On some level it's it's it's kind of Very deeply connected to this fact that Like yes I agree with you that Crypt VC's have this better path to liquidity Relative to traditional Venture Capitalists um and I think that's good I Think that's good for financial markets

I think it's good for the health of uh Access to investment opportunities the Thing that I think a lot of retail Investors complain about is that hey by The time this token Launches on public Markets it's already marked up at a Really high valuation but that's really A function more of the fact markets That's Market bu Market that's a market That's maret that's markets we're in a Bull market that's what people think the Thing should be worth but if you looked At the token launches that happened last Year or the year before that they Weren't coming out at these crazy prices And so that's really just a function of Where we are in the market cycle rather Than some fundament in fact you could You could be buying into things you Could be buying into things in the bare Market in crypto lower than the VC's Paid there are a lot of things floting Around that are high quality projects With amazing treasuries that were below Not even the bare Market actually if you If you look at some of are still locked Up if you look at some I me we've done We've done treasury sales recently I Mean that's been a pretty big strategy For us knowing that like there's a lot Of opportunity out there where people Aren't looking and then yeah I think I Think for us I mean we I think we've Looked at like I mean we've done this

For 10 years so you know the average Holding period before selling has been Years for us um again it like each as he Mentioned I mean it really just depends On the BC uh and of course like I think For us like we discount sort of where we Mark companies until they're finally Fully liquid for us and so you know for Us I mean you know valuations could be High there could be low floats I mean I Think right now we're at like 21 Unicorns but at the end of the day I Mean you don't know until you know Things become fully liquid and for us Like and and I think the other the other Thing that people don't think about too Is like oh yeah like VCS can sort of Sell right away I means the ones that Aren't doing as well where you probably Have as much difficulty trying to find Acquisition market and and sort of Selling a company that's like lower Market cap so I think we kind of run Through the same sort of challenges but Nevertheless I mean we can we can kind Of make that happen so I want to talk About meme coins because you bought it Up and you said you know the the Retailer might be rebelling and and Actually buying mem coins um I mean Would you agree that memes mem coins Have had a higher share of mind or share Of voice than than is warranted uh in The last couple of months and I mean one

Of the theories that I have about why is Because when the market was moving Sideways for specifically the last 9 90 Days or so the market moved sideways um We needed dopamine and we weren't Finding dopamine on the salanas and the Near protocols and all the big protocols And so where do we go to get our Dopamine well we go to you know we we go To pump. fun and we create uh roaring Kitty with hat and roaring Kitty without Hat and roaring Kitty with I don't know With dog and no dog and you know that Becomes and that becomes the mem coin Meta um how sustainable do you think it Is I mean and and is it going to be here For are these mem coins going to be here For the next part of the cycle Paul Maybe I'll start with You yeah I think I think me coins are Are going to be around um I think it's Going to be similar to to venture where You know it it's it's really based off I Mean it's it's not every mcoin is gonna You know I I think it's it's nice to be Able to have folks you know kind of Create a Mee coin you know create a Narrative around it and and you know Maybe it's you know something around Elections maybe something else but like At the end of the day I mean it takes a Lot whether it's a meme coin or a Project to continue to sort of engage And bring utility and you know maybe

Something like uh you know this certain Dog coins out there have been able to do That to Rally folks around certain Initiatives and really sort of keep that Narrative going and even have maybe like A purpose or maybe even have like Laughter around it so I do think it's Going to be similar to to venture where There's a few meme coins that just Continue to sort of stay and kind of Continue that narrative and find Different ways to sort of iterate but Most m coins are just going to go to Zero so I I have a different Theory and I'll open up to you guys but my theory Is as follows like if I look at any Project in crypto you specifically need Three things uh you need technology you Need Casino which is dopamine and you Need religion or Community whatever However you want to call it right now When I look at like a project like Starnet and I think starnet is a a great Example because they have great Technology but they have zero casino and They have zero community so I mean like For me that's that's the way I see it They may have the best technology in the World but they have zero casino and zero Community at the moment meme coins are Coming in from a different point of view And they're saying look naturally Because we're mem coins we're part of The casino so we've ticked the casino

Box we've ticked the oh we you know if We get a community we may get the Community box but then I looked at the Mcoin market and I said hold on a second How many memecoins have survived as just Being simple meme coins for more than One or two cycles and the answer is that I came up with is zero so you may say Okay well doge is a meme coin and it's Been here for multiple Cycles but Actually doge is not a mcoin doge is a Payment platform that may or may not be Inte ated into Twitter and right now the Probability that it's going to be Integrated is valued at a certain Billion at a certain number of billions Which is the market cap of Doge then I Looked at sheiba and I said well Sheba Started off as a cute dog but Sheba is Not a cute dog anymore it's actually a Technology layer it's a layer two and Sharum and whatever else and then I Looked at like flaky and I looked at Bankk and they all have the same thing Where they started off with religion and Uh uh religion and casino and then they Pivoted into technology and I've yet to Find one meme coin that has lived Multiple Cycles as just a meme and maybe Even if you want to extend it Beyond Meme coin just go into memes and say how Many memes have lived for multiple Cycles in any um medium and like to me a Meme is something that that needs to be

Quick and so I think that they start off Getting casino and community and then It's up to them to create a product so To speak I don't know I don't know if That makes sense to you guys um Bish I'd Love to hear your views I think the story explains too much uh If you look at the if you look at Doge Doge is worth right now about $22 Billion okay if if doge is a payments Product it is worth more than Twitter Itself right now so there is absolutely No way that doge is being valued as a Potential payments integration in Twitter like doge is look doge is a Memec coin right to the extent that There is technology that is riding Sidecar with Dogecoin or with Sheba or With any of these platforms it's because It's so big that somebody at some point Came along and decided hey I should like Try to build something but it's not BEC That's not why that's not it doesn't Have much explanatory power if that went Away I I don't think Doge would be worth Even 10% less than it's worth today um Like the the story you're telling of Okay well the reason why this mcoin Activity is picking up is because Markets have been sideways people want Volatility they want to gamble again This doesn't match the timeline because The memec coin Mania began before any of The stuff was going sideways right and

It's and I would guess you know if your Theory is correct then if markets start Going up again then mcoin activity Should die down and I would predict Actually the opposite but that's what Happened but that's what happened Yesterday also go so I'll show you Something I'll show you something Actually very interesting so this is the Performance of the coins in the last 48 Hours so when the market started to Recover what you can see is that the AI Coin started to recover the Dex coin Started to recover and all and all of That and the mcoins actually started Going down immediately and that was Where I got the theory from because I Looked at the flows and I was like holy [ย __ย ] the Market's pumping but the means Are dumping the memes are dumping maybe People are saying hold on if quality Starts pumping what do I need to play The memes For I mean look it's not it's not a bad Explanation but that is n equals one of An example of like yeah something Happened in the market and you're trying To tell a bigger macro story about it Like in reality if you remember Doge Right which was the the primordial Mecoin that we can all kind of look to As the real pattern across cycles of how Mcoins behave Doge more or less pumped In line with the market and there are s

When Doge pumps idiosyncratically Relative to the rest of the market right Obviously there's these kind of retail Driven events that draw attention to Mcoins but for the most part mcoins are Very procyclical the what we're seeing Right now with respect to all the demand Around this mcoin uh carousel right Where you have you know pump. fund a new Memec coin every single day and a new Meta that is what's really new the Memecoins themselves being a part of the Market that's as old as as the hills you Know that's been around forever okay so Do whether let me let me show this with You guys you guys all have VCS you guys All have amazing fans you're probably The leading three fans in the crypto Space are you guys can you guys and are You guys holding any meme coins on your On your on your books like I mean can You put your hand on your heart and go To your investors and say look guys you Know we we like ton therefore we bought Resistance dog because we just thought It was a good proxy or I don't know we Like Bas and therefore we bought Bas Bread like I mean is it like is it a Reality that fanss are putting or would Put meme coins on their balance sheet We Don't yeah we don't either Paul does Paul's we don't we don't we've explored It but we we don't

Currently yeah I think that it's kind of Like nfts too right it's it's sort of I Think most of them it's just so hard to Fundamentally value like how do you how Do you put a discounted cash flow Against that or how do you say like this Is the market they're going after you Know it's it's very hard to Value these Things and if you can't value them then You know you're kind of speculating and You're gambling at that point and that's Not really what we're paid to do I I Also think for what it's worth you know A different lens on this is you know if You look at the global gaming Market It's something like 300 billion dollar a Year of spend goes into like mobile Games and video games it's just it's a Lot of money that's there's a lot of Revenue sitting there and this is just Like real money games in my mind like I Don't think it's it's um you know people Have now an outlet to be able to play With people all over the world and play With real money and that's that's Compelling and so I think it's both Procyclical because that's what draws People in but it's sort of one of these Things that's like it's going to go up And then it'll plateau and maybe go down A little bit and then it'll go up but Like the actual overall trend I suspect Is going to be up and to the right in Terms of the industry I I don't think

Any particular one is going to survive Because it is a meme but in aggregate You know you're I think this this whole Phenomenon actually is going to be Around for a long Time vure investor what that might mean Is like yeah go ahead you're saying as a Venture that might mean is you you yeah What that might mean is you might choose To invest in something like a pump. fund You might invest in the platform that is The like the thing that lets that happen Right the game platform you might sort Of say you could invest in um but I Think investing directly in the memes is Is okay so so you you took us there are You guys making any investments in meme Coin infrastructure like a pump. fund I Mean are there any other um investable Like we kind of know what pump. fund Does we we looked at the fees this week In terms of the if you look at the Annualized fees you're probably talking About $150 million this year that if you Can annualize I don't know if I don't Know if that's real and if it will be Annualized but I mean what other what Other platform is There I mean I I feel like we've come Across like 10 or 15 different pumped Off on competitors I mean I think that Would be an area that we would Potentially make the investment in you Know I won't speak about you know any

Certain companies but in general I mean Outside of just that particular space I Mean you're looking at like the team and You know the strategies for growth and If it's you know if it's starting off With mem coins as a wedge and kind of Moving on to like other sort of assets I Do think that like there's an Interesting strategy around memes Becoming a tool for just marketing and Engagement and so I can imagine uh Companies really trying to use memes Almost like they used nfts in the last Cycle to really just go out there you Know feel the community a bit and and Kind of you know draw attention to their Projects so that could be sort of I mean To be honest we did that and I like I Want to just share some results with you Guys we we decided we're going to launch A meme coin we launched a meme coin Called gami and the reason why cuz I was When you know when when we had the idea To launch the meme coin I was on a Trampoline with my kids and I'd just Taken a a gumy and it was the only way I Can enjoy the trampoline we launched a Meme coin what we didn't know is that What kind of gummy it was a weed gummy It was a very strong very couple of Milligrams couple of extra milligrams Let's put it that way it's the only way That you can enjoy jumping on a Trampoline for it's the only way you can

Enjoy jumping on a trampoline for for 5 Hours however long your kids want to Jump you take a gumy and you have you Have a great Saturday one of the one of My researchers dropped a video in the Research group and he said look look This guy made a meme in 10 minutes I was Like [ย __ย ] we got to teach our community How to make a meme and they all argued With me about you that's crazy they're Going to scam people I said no I played Them the clip from Andreas soplos where He says that in the future people will Be able to launch social kids will be Able to launch social currencies and It's an important skill to learn how to Launch and there's a lot to learn when It actually comes to a mcoin you learn About sniping you learn about getting Listed on exchanges etc etc so we ended Up launching a mcoin just honestly guys It was like supposed to be the most like It was I was supposed to press enter Launch a mcoin move on with the rest of My life but that mcoin became crazy I Mean we've got 55,000 holders there's a Market cap of over $100 million it keeps The the $100 million thing the best Thing that has done is it's United our Community and we've used the mcoin in Multiple places to get our community to Do things that we needed them to do like Test our app test our load test our ban To Bubbles app and sign up to to

Exchanges and we reward them with the Mcoin and it's become like a symbol of Of of allegiance to the community so it Is a very powerful tool a customer Acquisition tool while the coins are Actually running and we found it's been I mean what the the stuff that we've Achieved on the mem coins has been more Than any business that we could have Achieved in any with any other you want To call it promotional tool call it Whatever you want but right now we have An A mcoin that's become a beast and is Trading at at $100 million plus market Cap so it is a very valuable tool if if Used correctly I think um now I know What the future the mcoin is going to be Part of the community and you know let Let let the community decide what what The community decide um I want to maybe Jump from things that you wouldn't Invest in because you've all said that You wouldn't invest in mem coins to Things that you are investing in or Would invest in and I think the one Place that I really want to start is I Want to start with telegram ton and the Reason I want to start with ton is Because I mean I think uh look I've been Very bullish on ton it's I think in Terms of my highest conviction bits or My highest conviction plays which I Published uh my highest conviction bets For the rest of the cycle which is which

I published a couple of weeks ago I said It is my number three biggest bet after Awe salana and my number four biggest Bet is actually near and the reason why I like ton is because 900 million users Um it seems like they really are Adopting tonas the the platform for Telegram it does seem like they have Access to the most uh users in the right In in you know in the right um uh forum And so we're very bullish on it Paul I Know you guys are extremely I think you Guys publicized that it was your most Your biggest investment ever Right yes it's a very large investment For us um you know the thesis is you I Wrote on Twitter thesis is pretty clear I mean it's um you know like I think the Tech is is you know at least comparable To sort of what's out there uh you know We we you know they're goingon to have To sort of you know improve on on just Kind of getting developers like every Other platform right that's like the uh The north star of getting like you know Beachwood no I mean it's all about the Developers uh but at the end of the day I mean they do have 900 million um users And all across the world and you know I Think the other thing is the alignment Between Telegram and ton I mean to have Pble go out there and really you know First time speaking a very long time you Know really sort of talking about like

His vision for ton and being able to Have some of those conversations around Like where you know telegram wants to go With ton and you know I think it's I I Think it's a interesting bet I think it's something that isn't out There in terms of an existing user base That can really sort of integrate with Crypto really easily and onramp onto Onto crypto really easily and it's just Differentiated it's so different than Anything else invest what do you think Telegram as an app is worth like let's Let's take our ton the blockchain and Let's say that if telegram went onto the Market today the actual telegram app What do you think that telegram app is Worth today with 900 million users I mean I don't know because I've never Valued these things I feel like he's Probably best position to answer that Yeah yeah it's it's an interesting Question I don't remember what their Revenues are off hand but I think They're doing well I it's got to be you Know if I had to guess people will Probably bid it up to like 10 billion You know maybe more and part of the Reason is their growth has just been so Solid so 10 billion I think it' be on The equities markets I'm talking about The equities so this is my question this Is my question this is now again t is One of my highest uh call my highest

Conviction calls but if the telegram app Is worth 10 billion and I we're throwing Numbers around you and Twitter's value Is uh what Elon bought it for 40 billion What was the number that he bought it at 40 billion I think it was yeah I think I Think everybody marked it down to like 20 25 so I think it's been to mark down Okay so now I look at the fully diluted Valuation of the ton chain and that's 34 Billion So this is where this is where I Struggle a little bit and I say hold on A second um the app is worth 10 billion The chain is worth 34 billion um I would Imagine that off the record on the Record off the Record but actually on The record but actually off the Record And the founders don't own a big part of The chain officially so now I start Asking questions if the app without the Blockchain is worth 10 billion if I took The app away I guess the blockchain Would be worth nothing right because Then you could just go to salana suie Say I mean there's so many blockchains Out there Do we feel that by adding a blockchain To an app we are five exing the price of The ecosystem I think that's that's my That's my question Here should should you be answering that Yeah it's your like highest conviction BET right I mean it's not only my

Highest conviction bet it's also Paul's Highest conviction but I need to know This because I'm [ย __ย ] myself that Hold on I can't I I can't make the math Set up but instinctively sounds good I Have I have a theory for this yeah okay I I have a theory for this actually so Um okay so if you think about you know We talked about zero interest rates Being really um challenging right Because where do you put your money if You're making zero interest rates in Treasuries and so what it what it does Is it puts everybody out on the risk Curve so you start taking more and more Risk and then the way that then gets Expressed in the markets is that PE Ratios go up like for each dollar of Cash flow that a company is is able to Produce you're willing to pay More today for it um and so the way that Gets expressed like in the stock market Is PE ratios go up so instead of it Being a 15 or 20 PE ratio then the stock Markets at like a 30 PE um so my part of My theory on like why there's always This disconnect between token valuations And US equities valuations is that the Marketplace participants that are Participating in the crypto markets are Operating from a very different set of Parentheses like one they're often in Regimes that are not just zero interest Rate they're like negative 10% interest

Rate like if you hold your money you're Losing 10% a year relative to Dollars Which is how goods and services in the World are priced two you don't have Access to the US equities markets so It's not like you can take your money And go buy apple or Tesla or something Like that you in a lot of these places You actually have um not that many great Options in terms of equities markets in General um and three it's like what what Other options do you have right where's Your money going to go so this is like The most accessible place to potentially Get some sort of an instrument that Might appreciate or might actually give Out cash flows and so if you sort of Reason through it it's like it's not Crazy actually that people would in Effect for some amount of cash flow be Willing to pay a much higher PE right Like the the rates that they're willing To pay are much much higher and so I Don't think it's crazy that actually Some of these valuations um relative to Like if you have a token Network that Makes a billion dollars a year and Distributes that out to the Token Holders versus a company that makes a Billion dollars a year to give out to The shareholders I think the token Network that makes a billion dollars a Year would have a higher fdv than the Company that's listed on the US market

That makes the same dollar amount for Because of this reason now does that Mean ton should be be worth something or Not be worth I don't know I don't know If it's worth 30 I don't know if it's Worth three I don't know if it's worth 300 I have no idea but I think if you Were to compare two equivalent things The token Network would end up being Worth way more because of marketplace Participants yeah I think the way is Again like access to global markets and In addition to that it's a platform that Again other apps are going to build on Top of that there's likely going to be Like enhancement of like transaction Flow so you know you know it's more than Just an app it's actually a platform Where there's a lot of other Transactions that are happening so I Think you could underwrite to a higher Valuation than you know where where the Equity could sort of line so what you're Saying if I if I'm hearing you correctly What you're saying is Elon Musk should Launch Twitter chain urgently uh and he Could maybe get four times the money Back that he invested in Twitter he Could just get it back from just Launching a platform which allowed Everyone well so hold on hold on I think We need to do a little bit of mental Math here in order to check these Numbers out right so so first of all

When you launch a chain okay so you look At telegram you say oh my God you know It's a whatever 30 billion FTV the Reality of course is if Elon Musk were To launch his chain and kind of Following the Norms of crypto Elon Musk Would probably have about 20% of the the Value of whatever that Network would be Right or or sometimes less than 20% and So you have to discount it by 80% first And foremost okay second when you're Looking at the FTV of ton that FTV of You know 30 billion whatever it is is Including a bunch of tokens that are not Yet issued or used they're sitting in a Treasury somewhere and they may be used At some point for something but they They they don't actually in some sense Exist yet on the market and this is sort Of analogous to a company that has Unissued shares right they've approved These shares for usage but they'll only Actually be issued if the company feels That it's in the best interest of all Shareholders right so for example I Might issue it to a new employee but That employee doesn't exist yet but in Case a new employee those the difference Is that these are these are guaranteed To be issued and if the network stays up And the company shares are not Guaranteed to be issued so the company Shares is at the discretion of a board And these are just emitting on or an

Investing schedule you know what I mean So it's like well no but these are Ultimately at the discretion of the Token holders the token holders can go Decide we are going to cancel that Inflation we're going to withdraw those Assets that are in the treasury we're Going to burn the Assets in the treasury Right and many protocols have done that So it's not that different from a board That has unissued shares where they have Full discretion at the subject of the Token holders to decide what to do with Those assets they can also decide to Double the supply that's unissued right They can say you know what we are going To create more tokens than the current Max quote unquote Supply because there's Stuff we want to do with it that we Think is valuable to the network this Has also happened in in in various token Networks so none of these things I think Should be accounted for as comparable to The current value of the network so it's Just looking at an FTV number I think It's tempting to say aha this is like The Enterprise value of Twitter um but It's it's not really the same kind of Thing you have to look underneath the That valuation and try to understand What is the composition of this number To really come up with the Apples to Apples but but no I I I think it's Likely that if Elon Musk launched

Twitter chain which to be clear I think Is crazy but if he did it would probably Have a higher FTV than Twitter but that Doesn't mean that Elon Musk would make More money from uh that thing than he Would have in his ownership of Twitter Okay fair enough okay so let's move on So I think we've I think telegram we've Covered I think another one that which We're all bullish on and I'm I'm Specifically looking at the ones that We're all bullish on at the moment is NE Protocol um I mean look I looked at the Usage stats the usage stats have gone Through the roof um aishel maybe you Want to just walk us through why all of A sudden the market is becoming so Bullish on on Nia and I mean near is a Token that's really really really had a Tough time if you look at the I'm going Quickly take you to the price of Nia and You look at the price chart of Ni it's Been a real roller coaster for for Investors I've been invested I think Since very very very early and I must Say it's been an absolute roller coaster Because I mean it went up as high as $21 In the last Market but then it came down Back to 80 cents or something like that I remember in the bare market and nice Trading back at around $8 so Keen to Hear why what happened between here and Here which which which or here and here Which got us back to $8 what does the

Market like about This maybe I'll give us one to you Because I know that you're I think um Three Things yeah yeah we're close to those Guys we were seed investors back in the Day um 2018 I think three things Happened so one the market generally Came back so they're just Market beta Right like bitcoin's way up um ether's Up so that that happened um two there Was a an AI meme cycle and so a lot of People said maybe AI plus crypto is a Thing and they looked around and they Said well what's substantive and it Turns out Ilia is by far the most Substantive he's literally on the Transformer paper that invented large Language models there's nobody more Substantive in crypto than Ilia on on AI Um and so then there were a bunch of Funny memes that sort of started to Spread like if people remember the Jensen touch meme which was hilarious Um because you know he was invited to Give a talk with Jensen Hong the the CEO In Nvidia and some of the other folks That were on that paper um and then the Side effect of that which actually Ron I Think hearkens back to what you were Talking about is it sort of became a Little bit of a meme but then people Started paying attention and they said Wait a second like the technology here

Is real like sharding actually is the Right way to scale blockchains um and This thing is has had uptime and there's Actually real developers here and They're building stuff um and and so People actually were paying attention And and there were actually little Pockets of development things like Sweatcoin that were um that were Building and and had real users and you Know millions and millions of downloads Um and so when people started paying Attention they said okay well maybe this Thing is real um and so now I think it's Starting to tip into this like well Actually maybe this is like a salana Maybe this is like an ethereum like There's real developers here and there's Real use cases and things like chain Abstraction you know like why do I care What chain my stuff is sitting on I Should just be able to have assets Across all my chains and and my wallet Should be able to control those things And oh yeah I should I should be able to Scale with sharding and like that that Shard doesn't need to talk to that Shard And oh yeah like da that's really really Cheap makes a lot of sense like once People start sort of digging in a little Bit you know do you think where do you Think M stay for the technology yeah so Okay so I agree with you where do you Think that Nia is a superior blockchain

To for example a salana or maybe one of The other competitors where do you think That near actually wins and then what Makes it other than than the meme of Elia and the fact that he is such an AI Person what makes it an like let's let's Ask the question is it a meme or is it Really an AI play is near actually an AI Play like that's you know like I get the Meme that Elia is the guy but is near Actually ever going to be used for AI Yeah so so so on the first point the Near versus salana thing we're we're Actually like we're big investors in Salana too um and I think both can Coexist and both can be really Successful um they just take Fundamentally different approaches in Terms of these these offs about Monolithic versus modular and that has Downstream consequences and the kinds of Applications that would be built we Think both will be really successful Because they they cater to different Types of use cases so we don't think of It sort of either or um I I don't think Um yeah I think just different Ecosystems will develop and they they'll Both be successful and that's great on The reality of the AI thing um it's an Excellent question and I think it's Something that um you know there's real Risk in this cycle that a lot of people Look at these kinds of AI tokens and

Most of them are not real and they get Caught up in it and that those are sort Of meme coins that have a veneer of uh Legitimacy but they don't actually in Nearest case I think what they're doing Is they they are um trying to hone in on The kinds of things that actually you do Need crypto um for so for example um uh Data labeling is a thing that that a lot Of AI products need like you need humans To look at data or crowdsource data and And get that data to you somehow so that You can train these models um and the Near folks actually started prior to the New blockchain they were playing around With how to acquire this kind of data And one of the founders Alex skoff is is Very deep on this and so they're Actually building uh tooling and apps And and encouraging an ecosystem of People around data labeling uh because It turns out small micro payments to People all over the world is a really Really great use of blockchain and so if You could build tooling where people can Crowdsource data and bring data in um to Train AI models then actually the near Rails to be able to pay people are Really really useful um so they're being Pretty smart about how do how do you um Identify these kinds of pockets of real Usage that really need crypto plus Blockchain um and actually investing in Those um via the foundation like

Actually trying to encourage those parts Of the ecosystem how long that takes to Happen TBD you know I don't think it's Going to be fast I don't think it Happens in the next six months um but Directionally I think if anybody's going To figure that out it's it's probably Leah and Alex so you pretty much like Like when you invest in a company pretty Much betting on the team to say look They they're going to Pivot this thing They're going to keep developing this Thing Etc um Paul see you nodding um I Know I think you guys are also invested Anything to add on near or can I move on To the next One Oh's on all right so let's move on To let's move on to ethereum because I Really want to talk about ethereum like I I've been holding my ethereum bag Since just after Ico I think my they $6 Or $8 or something like I don't remember The number but it's it was very low um I Feel like I'm a comrade I feel like I've Been there from the beginning I feel Like it's like you know but the bags are Getting quite heavy like especially when I look at them relative to a salana or Relative to a Nia or relative to I don't Know everything else it just feels like Ethereum is maybe not performing as well This cycle you know um and then I look At that relative to my thesis around Ethereum and I kind of go okay look eth

Has got tvl has got the most tooling Built around it um it has had got the Most the the most vibrant VC VC Infrastructure but it is an unusable Chain and layer twos as much as I love Layer twos they don't talk to each other They they are different ecos systems and Base is base and arbitrum is arbitrum And they have they have nothing in Common they have nothing in common other Than the fact that you can maybe plug Your meta mask into both and that they Settle in the ethereum network and I'm Kind of going like is it maybe time to Dump my ethereum bags and you know maybe Look at the more exciting Blockchains um what are your thoughts Like is it is is it time is it is Ethereum going to make this crazy Comeback at some point and is and Everybody just going to be eth Maxis Again Paul I'd love to hear your views Here Yeah I mean look We uh as an invest I mean we have Diversification we we're you know we're Big in salana as as you guys may sort of Know invest is in ton and we're also Looking at other other monolithic chains Uh I do think that uh you know we're We're excited about ethereum you know It's it's a long-term play for us and You know as you know we have we have a Liquid portfolio and that can be a lot

More active but we are investors in the Entire ecosystem around ethereum we Seated arbitrum we seated starware and So I think it's just going to take a Little bit of time I think it's going to Take a bit of time for the Infrastructure to really kind of get Going where now we have like modularity And you know folks focusing on different Parts to really sort of like you know Get ethereum to scale and then at the End of the day I mean you just need the User experiences and the abstraction to Be able to make things a lot easier for The user so we're long-term bullish on Ethereum and we're going to continue to Invest into the ecosystem uh are you More long-term bullish on ethereum or More long-term bullish on Salana similar to aichel I think they Can coexist uh again in defi tvl I mean We're seeing ethereum excel in certain Use cases versus salon and dpin and um Other things like gaming that need a Little bit more dut so I think they can Both coexist okay so if I have $110,000 And I need to invest the $10,000 how Much should I put into ethereum and how Much should I put into Salana I I I Uh okay what do you think I mean like Like are we are we all emotionally Attached Do I 10,000 if I had $110,000 what

Should I do look unfortunately you got To pay us a lot more than getting on a Show to give investor device but I I Would say look I mean the obvious reason Why ethereum is lagging is because There's no there's very unlikely to be An ethereum ETF and so to the extent That a lot of what's Driven the market Cycle has been institutional Capital Inflows they can't come into ether right Now and so we're probably going to be Waiting another probably year at least Before we get a real shot at an ether ETF and until then I would expect Bitcoin to outperform ethereum I mean That's not surprising right this is Pretty straightforward just looking Where the flows are coming in where the Capital is arriving let me let me ask You a question is there a world where um Ethereum goes up and salana goes up less Than ethereum and the reason why I say That is you know I just think that you Know eth becomes a proxy for altcoins if Eth goes to 10,000 like that's a 3X from Where it is today I kind of see SL going Up much more than than a 3X if an e ETF Gets approved then I think the market Says oh well we know which one's next It's salana because it's you know There's no how can they approve an EF Not Approve that is absolutely not how the SEC Works no I I'm afraid I'm afraid to

Break it to you but um SEC does not Argue by analogy about which coins get Approved next uh like the reality SEC Has already declared war on Solana right They have stated explicitly they think Sol's security they have never said one Way or another whether they think ether Is security people are speculating that Maybe the SEC is going to do some Cuteness around saying oh maybe ether's Security TBD whatever but the reality is That they have much less of a leg to Stand on with respect to Ether and so They may get forced to approve an ether ETF this SEC like if if Biden wins and Genza Remains the SEC chair they will go Down fighting before they approve in in A uh isolana ETF much more likely they Would approve something like xrp or Litecoin or even Doge before they Approve soul for an ETF Wow that's scary I mean you just said something very Scary which was if Biden actually stays In Power bid sorry if Biden stays in power You've got Gary Gensler and Elizabeth Warren for another four years um um Aishel you you've been quite vocal about The Democrats and sorry to be clear not Four years I think 2025 is when Gendler's ter Ends but he could be reappointed Couldn't he or is but whoever the Appointment would be yeah I mean he

Wouldn't he probably wouldn't be Reappointed but he um but you know is The scary thought would be that you get Somebody worse than Gensler right like Now you have like a second term sitting President and you know a late late Career senator who has a lot of power Who can go even more ideological and More extreme so you know there's the the The really bare case here is that Whoever comes in is even worse than gor Okay hold on so let's quickly just let's Just quickly look at at what's going on Here so I saw this yesterday or earlier This week Donald Trump lost two debates To me in 2020 and since then he hadn't Shown up for debate now he's acting like He wants to debate me again well Make My Day pal I'll even do it twice so let's Pick the dates Donald I hear you're free On Wednesdays Don how do you think Trump Lost two de how do you think this plays Out like honestly honestly honestly like I need to hear your honest thoughts here How does this play out like I mean you You Know I mean I don't mean to be so it's It's a coin flip yeah I mean right now Yeah the problem is you go look at the Polling you look at prediction markets You look at everything right now it's 50/50 it could really go either Way slightly ahead but not that much Let's look at the worst case scenario

Well for me certainly the worst case Scenario uh Biden stays in power Elizabeth Warren stays right behind him Gary Gensler stays alongside her what What does that look like for crypto I Think right now the prediction markets Are probably pricing in crypto at a Certain price because they think that There's a certain probability that Gensler's gone and Warren's gone in the Next thing but what happens if not like Do you think that that's a do you think That if if on in November we get a Biden Victory do you think we lose 30% of the Crypto Market Immediately no I actually yeah I Actually I don't think I don't think It's that bad right the reality is that I suspect you were going to see Biden Moderate going into the election because He's going to realize that like hey I Got to win swing States tight election And I got a Pander you know I got to be A populist everyone's a populist during An election and uh on some level you Know the polling around crypto has Really started to become more uh fine Grained and we just getting a better Sense of how much people care and the Answer is that they care kind of right It's like it's like a voting Block it's Not a huge voting block but it's a Voting block and so to the extent that It's a close race that is likely to mean

That every little kind of tiny issue That doesn't matter that much to the Base like the Bas of the democratic Party doesn't care that much about Crypto it's kind of a niche issue but if You can win some independence by being Pro crypto then [ย __ย ] it yeah let's win Some Independence let's get some votes Um the second thing is that the reality Is your Biden started getting really Tough on crypto after FTX it's been two Years now right you kind of you get you Did the thing you threw the guys in jail CZ FTF SPF like everybody you kind of Show that you're tough on crime it's Clearly it's clearly not clearly not Come on it's clearly not about being Tough on crime like it's you can't tell Me that Elizabeth Warren and Gary Gensler and Gary gensler's Rampage is About what happened at FTX like I I just I just can't reconcile look at when all This stuff ramped up it was basically February of 2022 or sorry 2023 that all Of this started right like the stuff That coming out from the from finsen From the SEC going after coinbase and Binance and blah blah blah all this Stuff started surprise surprise after FTX collapsed so if I driven I think It's at the Timeline you may be okay yeah left to Your view Here yeah I so I mean it certainly had

An effect and especially because SPF was So publicly aligned with the Democrats That that they had to distance Themselves and so they had to show that That they weren't bought Basically um but but this is actually a Much more fundamental ideological issue Um and so it's you know even if Biden Gets elected the real question is how Much power does Elizabeth Warren have um Because the way that these appointments Work is they go through the Senate so Little sort of like Civics history Government lesson for especially for Non-americans right you have Congress You have Senate the president can say Hey I would like this person to be in The agency at the SEC um but the Senate Has to approve them and the way that the The current power structure is set up They've delegated essentially um Regulatory authority over the financial Markets to Elizabeth waren and so she Has a huge amount of oversight and say Into who these people are so uh you know Gary Gensler or Lena Khan at the at the Uh FTC um essentially people route Through Elizabeth and and the other Dems In the Senate are not going to approve Somebody unless El Elizabeth Warren has Has sort of signed off on that so the Real question here in my mind is how Much power does Elizabeth Warren have Going into the next cycle uh and I think

The best case there actually is it kind Of it's I think it's slightly better for Crypto if Trump gets in um because he's Then going to start proposing people to The Senate uh for these agencies that Are that are more Pro crypto and that's That's clearly good uh for us but I I Don't think uh the industry should just Count on that and I don't think you want To put all your eggs behind one basket Uh and so I think uh in parallel what What we're doing and what a lot of Others are doing um is trying to find The places in Congress where you can go In and win and so if you look at there's Just a vote in Congress around Sab 121 Which is a very sort of narrow archaic You know guidance from the from the SEC That has a a very sort of bad sort of Downstream consequences specifically What it does is it makes it very hard For um large scale custodians and Banks And broker dealers to participate in the Crypto ecosystem and so SEC has made it Very very very challenging for some of These Legacy trafi businesses uh to hold Any Bitcoin on the balance sheet or to Participate in these markets um and uh There's just a vote in Congress it'll go To Senate we'll see what happens but in In Congress 21 Democrats voted with all The Republicans to overturn that Guidance from the SEC um and so it got Through got through Congress um and now

It's going to go to the Senate so the Lesson here actually is I don't think Think you know the president is a sort Of a onshot deal and that's important um But actually the ground game of who wins In Congress and who wins in Senate is is Even more important because that's where The laws get made and so you can move Upstream with the SEC the sec's job is To is to regulate their their job is to Try to interpret the rules and and and Enforce them and and the real game is Can we just get the rules changed can we Just put and codify into the law that Can be treated fairly and equally with These other assets I agree but I do Think that I do think that the head of The SEC here has got a lot a big hand to Play and whoever's pulling the strings Of the the head of the SEC is like What's going on the SEC now I think we Can all agree is irrational like it's Not rational what's going on here it's You know especially not from an MIT an Xmit blockchain Professor you know like You know you were nmit blockchain Professor and it seems like you hate Crypto all of a sudden Paul anything to Add before we go I think we got like one More minute anything to add around Around I think I think it's I think this Is they'll all have an effect and I I Agree with the Vel that like there's a Lot of other stuff underneath that's

Probably going to have even more of an Effect but you know I think for us like You know whether Trump or Biden wins Like I think crypto is gon to be fine um It may take a little bit of a a detour Here and there but like we're we we're Pretty excited regardless of what Happens here I mean but like inside Inside of you do you have like a do you Want Trump to beat Biden like I know Like when you think about when you think About your your LPS and you think about Your shareholders and you think about Your investment I mean when you think Just about that who yeah I I do think I Think I think Trump is a bit more Favorable I think for for most crypto Folks but again it is what it is and we We'll deal with what what happens yeah Guys listen it's been amazing having you Here I could probably carry this on for Like three hours and still be having a Lot of fun but I we we do have to go for To I just want to thank you guys again For again high alpha show high int high Intellectuality in the show I really Loved it um so thank you so much and of Course we'll see you guys again on Banta Uh to the bant fan we're going to see You guys again on Sunday doing another Show a meme coin show but it's a very Different mem Coin Show we're actually Going to discuss the the psyche behind Mem coins and stuff like that so um

We'll definitely see you uh you will see You then um until then I guess what we Can say is trade well Farm well and I'll See you guys on Sunday [Music] [Applause]

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